Meat, Butter, and Health: Low-Carb Insights from Dietician Michelle Hurn // Part 1

Brace Yourself: Unpopular Truths and Bold Insights on Health from a Committed Dietician

For the past couple of months, I have been focusing on sugar—or rather, its opposite: how most of us can benefit from reducing our sugar intake. I shared an interview with Yair, who created an innovative no-sugar, no-dairy chocolate bar, and another with Luli about protein and blood glucose.  

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Today, I am interviewing Dietician Michelle Hurn - this is a two part interview.

In Part 1 of this interview, we focus on several key topics related to diet and health: whether animal protein is inflammatory, the relationship between animal protein and disease, the impact of plant-based diets on the environment, the connection between saturated fat and heart disease, the role of eating frequency in health, how diet can influence Type 2 diabetes, and effective dietary strategies for weight loss.

In Part 2 of this interview, which will be published next week, we delve into the impact of diet on mental health, exploring how our food choices affect our mental well-being and which dietary choices support better mental health. We also discuss the importance of animal proteins and fats for women's health, particularly regarding hormonal balance, fertility, and mental health, highlighting the specific benefits these nutrients provide for women. Additionally, we examine regenerative agriculture, explaining how meat and dairy products can be part of this sustainable farming practice and the environmental benefits compared to conventional methods. Finally, we suggest three key dietary changes that can help people feel more energized, improve their mental health, and assist with weight management.

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These topics are personal for me and I am trying to learn too. In 2021, after 20 years of following a vegan and vegetarian diet, I transitioned to a different way of eating because I no longer felt physically well, and it had become a mental and emotional strain. I adopted the Macros style of eating to re-learn how to consume all foods in balance. This led me to write the cookbook Kosher Macros: 63 Recipes for Eating Everything (Kosher) for Physical Health and Emotional Balance.

It took me over two years to get comfortable eating meat and overt fats found in meat and dairy because, frankly, I was afraid of them after being vegan and vegetarian for so long. In 2023, I started eating darker cuts of chicken, beef, butter, and full-fat dairy products, and I am feeling better and better. I am now sleeping better, feeling more satiated after meals, noticing improvements in my skin and hair, my chronic constipation has disappeared, and I feel more grounded emotionally and mentally. Additionally, I am eating more calories than before and maintaining my weight. We can think whatever we want or repeat slogans we learned about food and nutrition growing up, but at the end of the day, the body never lies. I wanted to understand what was happening in my own body based on my changing diet and allow my mind to learn so I could evolve and feel at peace with my choices. I became a vegetarian in the 1980s, and nutritional ideas have evolved since then, and so should I.

Even though I feel good, I was curious and somewhat worried about eating meat and butter. I always worry about getting caught up in food extremes, as I did before, and there's a lot of information suggesting that meat and full fat dairy can be bad for our health. For instance, some studies link saturated fats found in meat and dairy to heart disease and inflammation. Additionally, I value confirmation and insights from experts, which is why I reached out to a nutritionist, Michelle Hurn, to discuss my current diet: low-carbohydrate, animal-based diet. 

Michelle Hurn is a registered and licensed dietitian with sixteen years of experience as a clinical, acute care dietitian, lead dietitian in psychiatric care, and outpatient dietitian. While practicing inpatient and outpatient care in the hospital setting, Michelle discovered a disheartening connection between the high-carbohydrate, low-fat, “sugar in moderation” nutrition guidelines she was required to teach and the rapidly declining health of her patients.

Michelle is the author of the book The Dietitian’s Dilemma, which details how current nutrition guidelines came into existence and advocates for a low-carbohydrate, animal-based diet as an option for individuals struggling with type 2 diabetes, mental disorders, eating disorders, sarcopenia, and heart disease. Her second book, The Fox Family Food Fight, published in 2024, is a fully illustrated children’s book highlighting the importance of eating real foods and avoiding processed foods and propaganda.

Michelle co-authored the article “Animal-Based Ketogenic Diet Puts Severe Anorexia Nervosa into Multi Year Remission: A Case Series,” published in *The Journal of Insulin Resistance*. She is also an endurance athlete, having competed in 13 marathons and 4 ultramarathons. 

Michelle's grassroots passion for ensuring access to animal-based protein led her to found "The Protein Project," where she supports local, regenerative agriculture by raising money to buy regenerative meat for local food banks.

May we all learn from this interview with Michelle, and may it give us the courage to educate ourselves and then make changes in our own diets for improved mental and physical health.

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Animal Protein: Is it inflammatory?

There is a lot of debate about the role of animal protein in inflammation. Can you explain whether animal protein is inflammatory and what the current research suggests about this issue?

When it comes to nutrition advice, it’s truly no wonder the public is confused! One expert will say, “eat meat” while another expert claims, “meat is the root of every disease from type 2 diabetes to heart failure.” First and foremost, we must never let any “expert” override our common sense and ability to think critically. Throughout evolution, humans thrived and evolved eating the megafauna (i.e. large animals, typically those that are significantly larger than human beings). If meat was inflammatory or disease promoting, the human race would not exist. Meat on its own does not contribute to disease.

In addition to being blood sugar stabilizing and satiating, meat is one of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet. It contains essential amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and cofactors which help your brain and body function optimally. Many individuals see significant improvements in inflammation markers when they increase animal protein consumption and decrease processed carbohydrate consumption.

Many studies that claim that animal protein is inflammatory are categorizing items such as lasagna, burgers, meat sandwiches and even pizza with meat as meat. I think we can all agree there is a significant and objective difference between a steak and a large slice of pizza with pepperoni! 

Again, meat, on its own, does not contribute to disease. Meat eaten with highly processed carbohydrates is another story. A team recently analyzed data that was published in the American Journal of Clinical nutrition. Their conclusion found that “when adjusted for BMI (body mass index) intake of unprocessed and processed red meat (beef, pork, or lamb) was not directly associated with any marker of inflammation.” Meat isn’t causing inflammation, but being metabolically unhealthy (overweight, type 2 diabetic, having high blood pressure) certainly is!

Animal Protein and Disease

 Some studies suggest that consuming animal protein can lead to various diseases. What is your perspective on this, and what does the latest science say about the relationship between animal protein and disease?

Similar to the above conversation on inflammation, meat is one of the healthiest foods on the planet. My hypothesis, shared by many medical professionals, is that many diseases are a byproduct of hyperinsulinemia (high insulin). This is caused by too much sugar in the bloodstream. What foods break down into sugar? 

Carbohydrates cause the most rapid increase in blood sugar and subsequent release of insulin from the pancreas. Interestingly, a 2015 paper reported that “during the epidemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes, caloric increases have been almost entirely due to carbohydrates.We eat more whole grains now, than we have in any other time in history. We also eat less animal fat. Yet, we are more sick, depressed, and obese than ever before. To move towards health, we need to move away from processed carbohydrates and towards a whole foods, animal based way of eating. 

Plant-Based Diets and the Environment

Plant-based diets are often touted as being better for the environment. Can you share your views on this and discuss whether plant-based diets are indeed more sustainable compared to animal-based diets?

It is certainly true that industrial agriculture compromises animal integrity. Industrial monocropping, which is used to grow foods such as wheat, corn, and soy is devastating to the health and biodiversity of our soil. Many farmers are now moving towards radically traditional farming also known as “regenerative agriculture.” Regenerative agriculture uses the natural cycles of life to raise animals with exceptional animal welfare, has minimal waste, and as you will see in the image below, it actually sequesters carbon back into the soil. 

Proper grazing of ruminant animals serves to make the soil better. When cows, sheep, and lambs can roam freely, they improve the soil with their manure. The healthier the soil, the greater the carbon capacity. It’s a perfect cycle! This is how nature functioned before large industrial factories took over. 

If we want to protect the environment, it seems to reason that we exist in a way that allows soil to regenerate, creatures to thrive, and humans to be fully functioning and healthy. Many people genuinely believe that buying bananas and avocados shipped from halfway around the world or chowing down on a vegan meat burger made in a factory across the country is good for their bodies and the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth! Industry and transportation are the two greatest offenders when it comes to producing greenhouse gasses. If we truly care about the planet, we need to keep ecosystems thriving. That starts with rejecting fake animal proteins and  supporting local, regenerative based farmers as much as possible. 

Saturated Fat and Heart Disease

Saturated fat has long been linked to heart disease in conventional dietary guidelines. What is your take on this? Does saturated fat cause heart disease, or is there more nuance to this issue?

When you eat a diet that’s high in saturated fat, you will likely see a rise in your LDL cholesterol. While this is almost guaranteed to freak out your primary care physician, we must question if elevated LDL is actually contributing to heart disease on its own, or if we are overlooking the actual underlying culprit of heart disease. 

Millions of dollars a year are spent on cholesterol lowering medications. I worked with a dietitian who told me he could never recommend a ketogenic (high fat, low carbohydrate, moderate protein) diet because it would raise LDL cholesterol and cause heart disease. Is this really the case? LDL has become the black sheep of the lipoproteins, but does it really deserve this title? LDL is a critical component to the immune system, and it appears to actually protect us from infections. It also helps break down fat soluble vitamins and plays a role in hormone production.

Why do we find LDL in clogged arteries? Does LDL have a split personality? Does it protect us from infection one moment then cause plaque formation and a heart attack the next? LDL, on its own, is not enough to start the process of hardening the arteries. It has to get stuck in the wall of the arteries to participate in forming plaque. In the absence of plaque formation, our heart continues to beat strongly without any issues. The question we should be asking is: “What is causing our arteries and LDL to be "sticky" so they contribute to plaque formation?” There’s good evidence that insulin resistance, which can be caused from eating too many carbohydrates over time, and inflammation cause the arteries and LDL to become sticky and contribute to plaque formation. 

This is one of the reasons that diabetics have an incredibly high risk of having a heart attack. In fact, having diabetes increases the risk of heart disease between two- and four-fold, and heart disease is the number one killer of individuals who have type 2 diabetes.  As you can see, saturated fat on its own isn't the problem. We are blaming saturated fat for a problem that has been caused by excessive carbohydrate intake. 

Eating Frequency

Many people believe in eating three meals and three snacks daily for optimal health. What are your thoughts on this eating pattern? Is it beneficial, or could there be better approaches?

Many people were taught that eating frequently would “rev up your metabolism” and contribute to weight loss. Nothing could be further from the truth! In order to lose weight, we need to keep insulin low. Insulin is a powerful hormone which is released from the pancreas when we eat carbohydrates or protein. Note fat causes a negligible insulin response. Insulin shuttles glucose (sugar) into the cells and suppresses the body's ability to burn fat. Most people eat or drink something that causes an insulin response about 17 times a day! You might think that's crazy! Who eats that frequently? Think about how often we grab a snack or sip sugary sodas, smoothies, or coffee drinks during the day. That cafe mocha you sip on from 8am to noon is constantly telling your body, “Store fat, don't burn it.” 

The best approach to meal frequency for most people is to eat 2-3 high fat, moderate protein low carbohydrate meals a day. There are some individuals who will benefit from eating more frequently. These would include individuals who are trying to gain weight for health or sport, young, growing children, or extremely active individuals struggling to get enough calories with three meals. 

Diet and Type 2 Diabetes

Can diet play a significant role in reversing Type 2 diabetes? If so, what kind of dietary changes are most effective?

The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Carbohydrates in the diet are by far the greatest contributor to blood sugar rises, and as expected, dietary carbohydrate restriction reduces the blood sugar. 

Individuals have been able to tape off as much as 150 units of insulin in 8 days with a low carbohydrate diet! When I worked as a dietitian, I had patients who suffered with the crippling effects of type 2 diabetes for 30+ years! Low carbohydrate diets are safe, sustainable, and effective. With a well-planned carbohydrate restricted diet, individuals reliably reduce blood sugar (glucose), reduce A1c, reduce elevated triglycerides, lose excess weight, and may reduce or eliminate medications. 

It’s always a good idea to work with a low carbohydrate educated doctor or dietitian when it comes to diabetes management. It is imperative that an individual work with a doctor if they are taking blood glucose lowering medications. These will need to be tapered while reducing carbohydrates in the diet.

The actual low carbohydrate diet is beautifully simple. Keep carbohydrates to 20 grams or less and enjoy fatty cuts of animal protein (beef, lamb, pork, chicken salmon) and added fat (butter, ghee, tallow) to satiety. You might ask why this information isn’t more readily available if this approach is so effective. There is an astronomical amount of money to be made in keeping people sick. Type 2 diabetes is one of the most profitable diseases for physicians, pharmaceutical companies, and the healthcare industry. If a type 2 diabetic continues to eat carbohydrates and take medication, it is virtually guaranteed they will suffer from heart failure, kidney failure, infections, amputations, and possibly a stroke. All of these conditions make lots of money for the healthcare industry. You must be your own advocate when looking at how to eat for health and to reverse disease. 

Diet and Weight Loss

For those looking to lose weight, what are the main dietary strategies you recommend? Are there specific foods or eating patterns that are particularly effective?

The diet for weight loss is the same diet that I’d recommend for Type 2 diabetes. You want to keep insulin low, ensure you feel satiated, and are eating in a way that you enjoy and feel is sustainable for you.

This diet starts with high fat animal proteins and is rounded out with low carbohydrate plants that you enjoy and tolerate. This way of eating eliminates carbohydrates (at least initially) Most people find they are able to tolerate 50-100 grams of carbohydrates once they have reached their goal weight and are metabolically healthy. Metabolic health is defined by being at a normal weight (not obese), having a normal A1c, and having normal blood pressure.

Here’s an example of a kosher weight loss meal plan:

AM: Coffee with heavy cream, 4 egg omelet with cheddar cheese and fresh herbs

Lunch: 6 ounces grilled salmon over a bed of greens, olive oil or avocado oil based dressing, and handful of nuts

Dinner: 8 ounce steak seared in beef tallow and grilled asparagus. Top steak and vegetables with olive oil and salt and pepper. 

Contact Information

If people want to reach out to you for more information or guidance, how should they do that?

I’m honored to do nutrition consults or answer questions related to nutrition.

• You can email me at: dietitiansdilemma.hurn@gmail.com

• Follow me on instagram at: @RunEatMeatRepeat

• Buy the Dietitian’s Dilemma: The Dietitian's Dilemma: What would you do if your health was restored by doing the opposite of everything you were taught?

• Buy my children’s book, The Fox Family Food Fight

Read my co authored paper on Animal based diets for anorexia: Animal-based ketogenic diet puts severe anorexia nervosa into multi-year remission: A case series | Norwitz | Journal of Metabolic Health

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I hope you enjoyed this interview with Michelle and it will support you in making good food choices for yourself and your family.

Am Yisrael Chai

Kenden